replied to Lumix :Actually I have just returned from doing a lot of research about BDSM. I didn't begin being this anti-BDSM. I researched it and talked in depth with the people involved in it. Then the longer I stayed there the more creepy their conversations got.
Women who were clearly in an abusive relationship (even outside of violence during sex) were told to accept that that is their proper position and that to be a true submissive they must learn to accept it. Other who didn't practice violence but rather subjagation were in relationships because they didn't feel like they were enough on their own.
They advocated for violence and refused to ever truly question how it is effecting them or why they desire such things. I have done my research alright, and it is precisely because of the abuse I saw within the community that I became so staunchly opposed. Perhaps you need to dig a little deeper than the happy face they put on for those outside of the BDSM community.
Because I repeatedly see "You're just talking about the public face of it!" and "Stop being disingenuous!" when I try to figure out where this sordid truth comes in. I'm an eight-year veteran of the Scene in multiple locations. I've had multiple long-term relationships with other kinky people. And I am at a loss to find this rotten heart under all our... glitter? Black leather? I've no idea.
I have met some kinky people who were more interested in casual play than relationships and weren't entirely open about this, and I've been hurt by that and seen it hurt other people. So I won't say that sexuality-based subcultures don't have potential downsides. They certainly do.
But I absolutely don't see where this... shadowy cabal comes in. Maybe I'm just not 31337 enough to have met the Kinkster Illuminati, but I highly doubt that.
It's interesting to me how people who make this sort of claim always say "Look deeper," or "do your research," or "we all know it's there," but never give any names, any locales, any groups. I wonder why that could be...
Fnord.
If you're asking whether, in fact, there is a subset of women (*cough people cough*) in the scene who fit the description, I think the answer is yes. I don't accept that they are necessarily more numerous than outside the scene--I have seen plenty of "vanilla" people--and halves or wholes of gay couples--go to great lengths to keep a relationship afloat. Abusive relationships aren't synonymous with BDSM, as I obviously don't have to tell you.
ReplyDeleteI do think there are nasty subgenres of the scene--especially people on discussion boards and the internet--in which people are giving crappy advice. I do know people who seem not to have it together in their BDSM relationships. (Duh, I'm not going to name them anymore than I'm going to name my 'nilla friends whose relationships suck. :) )
If "dig deeper" means "locate someone whose BDSM relationship is flawed", that's easy, because human relationships are flawed.
If dig deeper means, "Admit that those who appear to be content-to-happy are actually putting on a face to keep up appearances," that's a nonsensical claim. One could conceivably make it about anyone (Obama feeling confident and empowered by his job? He HAS to make us think that . . .) and of course, no one accused of doing it could present sufficient evidence to disprove a skeptic. ("But I'm really happy." "See, there's that glitter again!")
I'm with you, in other words, but I still don't get what the dig-deeper claim is--whether it's to identify unhappy kinksters, to "interrogate our desires" more closely, or to stop pretending we like rough sex in the way that 50s wives finally threw in their dishtowels.
some one found Gorians and decided THAT was SM
ReplyDeleteUm. I can only assume at this point that her "research" includes places besides this blog; because, bluntly, the only person who sounded like she was in a potentially abusive relationship was...her. And the big bad BDSM people told her they supported her getting out, at least putting up boundaries for anything she didn't want to do, etc.
ReplyDeletewhat the fuck ever.
And the big bad BDSM people told her they supported her getting out, at least putting up boundaries for anything she didn't want to do, etc."The more I look at her latest spew, the more I get the feeling that's exactly what the problem was: we didn't give her the advice she wanted. Instead of providing her with some sort of External Authority she could present to Pressuring BF as proof that he was Being Bad, we told her that her choice to consent or refuse was the authority, and (horrors!) that she should dump him if he didn't accept that.
ReplyDeleteRidiculous! How's a nice het feminist girl supposed to "catch and keep a man" and prevent him from oppressing her, if she doesn't have Appeals to Authority to keep him in line?
::headdesk::
Sunflower
"Um. I can only assume at this point that her "research" includes places besides this blog; because, bluntly, the only person who sounded like she was in a potentially abusive relationship was...her. And the big bad BDSM people told her they supported her getting out, at least putting up boundaries for anything she didn't want to do, etc."
ReplyDeleteI was going to say that. I mean, it really sounded like she wasn't even reading the same threads we were. I mean, it seemed like it went beyond just not reading carefully or not understanding; she sounded like she was replying to things that she read somewhere else entirely. Very strange.
And yeah, I have always wondered where these people are. Not here, that is for sure. I think Ren is probably right -- someone found Gor or TiH and decided that was EVERYone. Or maybe that's the secret stuff they're referring to. I dunno. It all makes me so freaking tired.
"If you're asking whether, in fact, there is a subset of women (*cough people cough*) in the scene who fit the description, I think the answer is yes."
ReplyDeleteOh, I think this is true. In fact, I know it's true.
And Hell, we've all seen websites that give some pretty creepy and often deeply sexist "information" on what D/s is and how it works. I don't doubt there are people out there who follow that bad advice.
The thing is, though, I don't consider "I found a creepy website on the 'Net" to be revealing anything serious about the offline Scene. I really don't. Websites are random, made by anyone anywhere. One can post to a website and lie, too.
What would count as proof to me would be something like "I was a member of Hoodleville PEP. I went there for six months, and was constantly pressured by the men there. At meetings, we were expected to address every man as Sir.
"At play parties it was worse. While everyone said in theory that everything was SSC and we could refuse anything we wanted, the men bullied us to the point where saying No really no longer had a meaning. We were constantly told that to be true to our womanly, submissive spirits, we had to agree to everything they wanted.
"You might say that Hoodleville PEP is the exception, rather than the rule, but I really don't think so. You know how there's a huge convention from the tri-state area every year in the big city, Wheezlepants? Well, a bunch of the better-known doms from Hoodleville present there every year, and are held up as pillars of the community. It really bothers me, because women are attracted to these guys as prestigious, and they're creeps and rapists."
THAT would be proof, in my eyes. Okay, maybe a little less than that would be proof. But something verifiable about real-world people, not about a couple of creepy websites. (And certainly not this one, if as I suspect talking to us was her "research" -- the proof that we're abusers is where now?)
"I was going to say that. I mean, it really sounded like she wasn't even reading the same threads we were. I mean, it seemed like it went beyond just not reading carefully or not understanding; she sounded like she was replying to things that she read somewhere else entirely."
ReplyDeleteYeah, probably. Which I'd suspect -- but I don't know this, because she's being deliberately vague -- is someplace on the Internet.
"Yeah, probably. Which I'd suspect -- but I don't know this, because she's being deliberately vague -- is someplace on the Internet."
ReplyDeleteSure, likely. But...that doesn't make her conversations with people here make sense, you know, if you're lacking that context.
"Sure, likely. But...that doesn't make her conversations with people here make sense, you know, if you're lacking that context."
ReplyDeleteNor does it count as research.
Which is also something about feminist circles that bugs me. In grad school, we read a lot of fascinating academic essays critiquing the idea of scientific objectivity. It was pretty fascinating in general, but... in the real world, I think that kind of thinking does more harm than good.
Because it justifies random people calling whatever they want "research," and if you call them on that, going off ranting about how subjective perspectives should count -- in ways that really aren't nuanced and useful, but rather are only designed to force an opponent to concede credibility for something really flimsy.
"The thing is, though, I don't consider "I found a creepy website on the 'Net" to be revealing anything serious about the offline Scene. I really don't. Websites are random, made by anyone anywhere. One can post to a website and lie, too."
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more.
BUT.
I think there's a difference with online information about BDSM as opposed to say, online information about health care reform. That is, I think the internet plays a more important part in the lives of *some* people into BDSM than it does in the lives of say, doctors, nurses, and health care employees.
If you are someone who is not becstar, who has pervy fantasies off in Dubuque, and you want to find out about it in 2009, you are more likely to surf for it than anything else. I do know real-life people whose first immersion in the "scene" was Literotica, or Fetlife. And of course, we all probably know or know of people who have exclusively or predominantly online relationships.
In other words, I don't think looking only at online communities (if that's what she did) or at anecdotal (personal?) experience (as some are suggesting here constitutes "research". In fact, I think her claim to research is suspect, because it's not supported, as you describe, Trinity. But I do think the fact that some online communities (aka the Goreans) seem sexist or patriarchal is a problem for BDSM in general and those getting into the scene from the start in particular. Whether this is a PR problem, a problem I'm exaggerating in my mind, a new problem, an old problem, I don't know, but I find it troubling. I find the online stuff far more filled with the idea that women are made to serve than anything I've ever experienced at a munch in my communities, and I think that's a problem that feminist kinksters could legitimately get exercised about.
I agree with you up to a point, Sera.
ReplyDeleteI do think that it's at the very least important that people know that when we say we're pro-BDSM and feminist, we don't mean "We think it's awesome for you to think 'real women' submit to men, because we're all about choice."
The thing is, though, even the most cursory lurking here shows that, really fast. Which says to me that it's not me being disingenuous when I do "Wait, that's actually pretty irrelevant."
And even if I plastered signs all over this blog (which I can't because I don't own it anyway) that said "what I'm typing does not apply to the Goreans," the opposite side has shown willingness to drag them back in no matter how much waving I do.
The other thing is: okay, so we've established that we all really don't like the Goreans, the TiHers, etc. Now what do we do? We can't take down those websites. Perhaps we could devote masses of time and effort to debunking them, in the hopes that a random person websurfing would see them.
But even then, I think that gives people too little credit. When I first encountered BDSM online, what I'd found was a website for fundamentalist Christians who thought it was OK to be kinky in bed because God is for M/f headship anyway and anything done in the marriage bed is undefiled.
I was desperate enough to find people like me that I lurked there a long time. I wanted to know how things were done, and why. And I was fascinated by how normal and well-adjusted the women seemed. Yeah, they believed some things I found deeply objectionable, but they clearly were not a group of barely-functioning codependent wrecks who didn't have lives. They were regular people in regular, albeit problematic, relationships, who were actually doing the things I really wanted to do, and discussing how to do them safely, how fun they were, etc. That was the first hint I wasn't insane.
But I wasn't desperate or stupid enough to ever feel I had to subscribe to a religion, or a gender theory, that I didn't believe in. I was gathering information. When I found people and communities that didn't believe the parts I objected to, guess what? I left.
The notion that sub women are so desperate that they'll rush into Gor even if they were feminists a nanosecond before and be totally destroyed by it strikes me as, well, kind of demeaning.
"The thing is, though, I don't consider "I found a creepy website on the 'Net" to be revealing anything serious about the offline Scene."
ReplyDeleteThere could be a drinking game: pick a topic, spend two minutes searching, and for every creepy site that makes people into it look insane, dangerous, sexist, or racist, take a shot.
And thus the world is discredited!
@alexandraerin
ReplyDeleteExactly.
It's not that I deny that people find out how to do BDSM online, with heartbreaking or even more disastrous results.
It's that, well, people often find bad advice on how to do ANYTHING at all online. Why are we supposed to accept that people can and do learn to use discernment when looking online for recipes or advice on gardening, but that when it comes to BDSM, they're simply swept away?
Yeah, sexual desire is a powerful motivator, and yeah, sometimes in its grip we do very stupid things. But come on. What exactly is this thing about "Well, it was sex, so I threw myself into it, despite that I'm a feminist and I wouldn't give people like Masterful Master Phil the time of day if I didn't NEEEEEEEEEEEED A DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM?"
It strikes me, to be honest, as a resurrection of the whole very sexist idea that women are so desperate for male attention that they act silly (and in this case, even self-destructive) to "get" and "keep" a man.
I'm sorry, this is a very Srs Bzns topic, but when I read "Masterful Master Phil", I pictured Dr. Phil in leather and spit a mouthful of Master Pepper all over my screen.
ReplyDeleteRemember, the Master Phil show is intended for entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for domination.
"The more I look at her latest spew, the more I get the feeling that's exactly what the problem was: we didn't give her the advice she wanted. Instead of providing her with some sort of External Authority she could present to Pressuring BF as proof that he was Being Bad, we told her that her choice to consent or refuse was the authority, and (horrors!) that she should dump him if he didn't accept that.
ReplyDeletedude. that's eerie. this is just your comment, right? or is the quote mark quoting something? Because I wrote something that was almost this word for word, at least the first bit, and ended up not publishing. or thought I did.
Or, what I was going to say: yeah, it seemed like she was just looking for someone to step in and fix it for her. But even when people told her what seemed to -me- like sensible and supportive advice...she didn't hear it.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, you may have a point: she wanted something along the lines of, "blah blah this act is inherently Bad for you to ask of me, signed the BDSM Authority," or something of that sort. Except...I can't see how that would've done any good, if the guy's as much of an asshole as it sounded like from her description. I just couldn't figure out -what- she wanted, only that she seemed in a strop because whatever it was, we apparently couldn't or wouldn't give it to her.
also got the impression that either BF may've recently stepped up the pressure or she might've gone ahead and done something or committed herself to something she didn't feel good about, and is now projecting/blaming like whoa.
ReplyDeleteIt's that, well, people often find bad advice on how to do ANYTHING at all online. Why are we supposed to accept that people can and do learn to use discernment when looking online for recipes or advice on gardening, but that when it comes to BDSM, they're simply swept away?Oh, um...-quietly puts away about.com DIY guide to appendix removal-
ReplyDeletelooks like becstar was banned from feministing
ReplyDeleteI just made a blog :D
ReplyDelete"Which is also something about feminist circles that bugs me. In grad school, we read a lot of fascinating academic essays critiquing the idea of scientific objectivity. It was pretty fascinating in general, but... in the real world, I think that kind of thinking does more harm than good."
ReplyDeleteTotally. But I'm biased because I'm actually a science person by schooling and somewhat by profession :)
"In other words, I don't think looking only at online communities (if that's what she did) or at anecdotal (personal?) experience (as some are suggesting here constitutes "research")."
To be fair I was responding to her "research" on porn causing rape in the other thread, and she presented as her "research" some random uncited "studies" and "surveys" that even someone who is not an expert in polling and statistics could see were problematic, and then she refused to give us the website she got them from.
I have got no clue where she got these other ideas, whether she got them from Gor or TiH or what, but she also refused when people asking her to link to this stuff so we could help her understand it. You can check out this thread in case you missed it -- it got long: http://sm-feminist.blogspot.com/2009/05/facebook-vol-2.html
"Masterful Master Phil"
ReplyDeleteEw I knew this guy in college. His name was even Phil. He was...yeah.
"dude. that's eerie. this is just your comment, right? or is the quote mark quoting something? Because I wrote something that was almost this word for word, at least the first bit, and ended up not publishing. or thought I did.".
ReplyDeleteThe quote mark was supposed to be the close-quote on the bit I did quote from you. So, the italicized bit before it was you (comment immediately above mine). The bit after is me, but apparently with similar thoughts as you had (plus, we have some similarities in our snarking styles).
"also got the impression that either BF may've recently stepped up the pressure or she might've gone ahead and done something or committed herself to something she didn't feel good about, and is now projecting/blaming like whoa.".
Something someone (possibly ggg girl) said somewhere (I think a comment on either the post before this one, or at LfG: WoaS) started me wondering if what had set her off was that she'd given in to Mr Pressure. (Yes, Becstar, you're half-right: feminism is supposed to keep shit like that from happening. But feminism isn't a deity, it's a tool - the hammer won't drive the nail for you.)
Sunflower
Lol "feminism isn't a deity". That's a good one!
ReplyDeleteIt really is terrible when people are coerced into something they don't want to do. I could see it being so much harder for some individuals to work through coercive sexual abuse than sexual abuse that used brute force because of feelings of guilt. But no one ever deserves abuse and abusers are responsible got the abuse. It could still be so difficult to know you could have gotten out before. Or to see all of the red flags clearly in hindsight
Trinity-
ReplyDeleteI am loving the Hoodleville-Wheezlepants test for subcultural fucked-upedness. I really think that it helps frame the argument. Because, yeah, there is no subculture beyond a given size that doesn't have at least one asshole, and there is probably no subculture of any size that doesn't have at least one creepy website. So those tests are out. The Hoodleville test is also out, because all it means is that there is one localized dysfunctional community. True for everybody. But Hoodleville-Wheezlepants is essentially saying: does this subculture recognize its own successes and failures? That's where I want to push the “research.”
Yeah, that's really what I think is important too. I can easily see someone in Hoodleville going to three munches and leaving in disgust... and that being totally fine with me, as long as that person said "My experiences in Hoodleville really lead me to be suspicious, and yeah, maybe it's better in Wheezlepants where you are, but I hope you'll forgive me for having NO INTEREST IN STICKING AROUND TO FIND OUT. EW EW EW."
ReplyDeleteI don't, and I don't think anyone here would, have any objection to that.
Nor would I have any objection to "Honestly, I hear what you're saying about Wheezlepants, and that's great for you, but I really do think Hoodleville is more representative, because of X, Y, Z."
Or "Yeah, but I'm concerned about the Hoodlevilles. You're telling me big metro areas are fine... but it's not people in big metro areas I'm worried about, it's women out in Podunk who are easily convinced there's one true way and that they have to put up with assholes to get what they feel they need. Please stop bringing Wheezlepants into it."
I'd honestly have some degree of disagreement with that last, but it would be real discussion.
It's when people do this really secretive "I know the real score but can't tell you how I know it" thing that I get skeptical/pissy.
Trinity,
ReplyDeleteI agree that the comments/scenarios you mentioned would be sensible critiques... It just seems like quite a few users *cough bescar cough* are completely unreasonable and can't even form a coherent argument. Several of those users seem to keep their comments as vague as possible because they don't have any real examples.
It's too bad really, because it makes it almost impossible to have an actual conversation with them. Should I just give up on trying to communicate or have a real dialogue?
GGG,
ReplyDeleteI've found that in every big conversation over this, there are people who, after seeing the nastiest of the antis resort to name-calling and the nicest of the antis (usually) not call them on it, rethink some anti-SM positions.
However, these people are few and far between, and rarely decide they're totally OK with us. It's more of a "wow, I don't like the way you've been treated, and you don't sound violent. I really don't like what you say you're into, but people are behaving nastily to you and I don't want to be part of it."
I feel, generally, that it's worth it to engage somewhat in the large conversations, because someone out there will be likely to do some thinking. But in a small conversation like that one was, where it was really only Bec and Eghead, who seem to have pretty deeply entrenched positions, talking to a whole slew of pro-BDSM folks, it didn't seem very worth it.
Trinity,
ReplyDeleteYeah, the BDSMers definitely outnumbered the antis on that thread. Sometimes I wonder how the antis have such a hard time understanding us. Doesn't it make sense that people have different pain thresholds? Some people try to tell me that because I like X I like pain, but X doesn't feel painful to me at all, it feels pleasurable.
I put a lot of time into creating thoughtful responses on some of those threads; that's why I decided to make a blog instead and put them up there in a better format. Also, it's nice to meet people who aren't constantly hating on my sexuality :D
Ggg_g-
ReplyDeleteI had a similar experience. I probably spent three hours working on various mild-mannered responses to 9/2's threads, including threads where she was ostensibly soliciting posts from the "opposition," and they were deleted in mod. Grrrr. So I've decided to focus on crafting respones on my own blog.
But I don't think, as you suggest, that the anti-kink bloggers are primarily anti-pain-as-erotic. That's a common first-blush reaction, a sort of squick factor, but it isn't the focus of most thinking anti-kink bloggers. Oh, they reach for it when they're stalling, but mostly as a rhetorical device, I think. ("No one in their right mind would enjoy ____" or the more erudite "We can clearly see the echo of patriarchal oppression when a woman tells us they like to be _____.")
But to be fair, that isn't the crux of their argument. They tend to be concerned more with D/s dynamics than with S&M per se. Insofar as I've seen. And the counter-example I can think of...I can't find her blog at the moment...is at least consistent in rejecting all extreme sensory experiences, from skateboards to hot sauce.
@Orlando
ReplyDeleteYeah, it doesn't seem to be SM they object to so much as D/s. Though they do tend to assume that most SM happens as a part of D/s, "she's getting hit for his pleasure" etc.
But with many of them, yeah, if you're careful to say "I like a little bit of pain and don't do those weird role things, ew!" they'll often go "Well, that might be OK... I guess, but um, ew. And didn't you call him Sir? See, you're one of the bad ones anyway."
From what I've seen, S/M is used as a handy reason to say there's something wrong with D/S.
ReplyDeleteSo all of this "What's wrong with you that you want to hit women"/"What's wrong with a woman who wants to be hit" stuff, that's the concrete point that gets brought up, and it gets brought up as a problem with power dynamics.
Which leaves me, as a non-SMer who does d/s, sort of going, "You claim to be arguing against what I do, and yet you can't actually raise a point that actually includes what I do. WTF?"
OC: yes, and further, that given size would probably be about, oh, "three." At most.
ReplyDeleteI think they just can't be arsed to differentiate between SM and D/s. It's all Bad.
ReplyDeleteAs far as differentiating between D/s and S&M, I don't think it matters to them. With D/s you're submitting to a man and reinforcing patriarchy. With S&M you're being hit by a man and reinforcing domestic violence.
ReplyDeleteForgetting, of course, that not all relationships are M/f, different combinations of BDSM and, most importantly, consent. They have this idea in their heads about what we do.
I understand the focus on D/s rather than S&M. I mean, its an extension of the more general feminist critique of gender roles: who does the dishes? Who initiates sex? Who controls the household finances?
ReplyDeleteAnd it could be--though it usually isn't--an extension of the broader humanist/democratic/anarchist critique of social power imbalance, gendered or otherwise. Those are at least interesting questions.
Unfortunately, the argument rarely rises to that level; instead it typically sinks to "spanking sucks, dude."
@Orlando
ReplyDeleteI probably spent three hours working on various mild-mannered responses to 9/2's threads, including threads where she was ostensibly soliciting posts from the "opposition," and they were deleted in mod. Grrrr. Who/what is 9/2? Is that the same as that rage against the man-chine blog? It sucks that they deleted non-troll on-topic responses just because they didn't agree ESPECIALLY since they were asking for different opinions.
@PharaohKatt
As far as differentiating between D/s and S&M, I don't think it matters to them. With D/s you're submitting to a man and reinforcing patriarchy. With S&M you're being hit by a man and reinforcing domestic violence. A lot of them probably do see it that way. I guess they don't care about consent or censorship of sexual expression.
@Trinity
Yeah, I'd agree they probably do see D/s as more problematic. Too bad since D/s is such a powerful way to safely explore the very human desire to have or submit to power.
I've now got a post up at community.feministing - http://community.feministing.com/2009/06/examining-the-examination-of-b.html
ReplyDeleteHey Alexandra Erin --
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say "thanks" for some of your comments on the original clusterfuck that started off this post chain.
It ... I can't say it pleased me, because the experience stinks on ice, but I appreciated someone in there posting about having been through a bad relationship situation because they'd blindly accepted "my kinkiness makes me bad". Mine was a little different, but these are experiences that never get damn well taken into account.
@alexandra erin:
ReplyDeleteI have lost my feministing account info and whenever I try to sign up for a new one, it just asks me for the old security question. If you're a poster there, can you help? I tried emailing with the feedback form and haven't heard anything.
I just signed up to make that post (I was signing in with my Livejournal open account to comment), so unfortunately I can't really help
ReplyDelete... heh. And I was driven to register to reply to a comment on it. We're all mad here.
ReplyDelete@alexandra erin:
ReplyDeleteShoot. In that case, would you post this for me:
The problem that I have is that "examination" is expected to go a certain way. When I post something like this in response to the endless "examine" clamor:
http://trinityva.livejournal.com/982578.html#cutid1
I get a handful of people on my side commenting, and occasionally one person from the other side responding.
I certainly never get an "Ah! You're thoughtful! We're sorry we bothered you, and we'll go off and reconsider our assumption that people do BDSM because they're unreflective" from anyone.
This indicates to me not that people are saying "Know thyself is always good advice, especially under patriarchy," but that they are saying "You are missing this specific key that makes what you do wrong and bad."
THAT is why it's so hard to take "but have you examined?" at face value. Not because I love every choice any woman makes and do feminist cheers any time a woman fucks.
eh, make "from anyone" into "from many people." I have in fact encountered a rare few, and I'm honored by their willingness to listen, and I don't want to imply this isn't so because I'm feeling snarly over this...
ReplyDeleteI'll post it if you want, but for making a comment you can sign in with your Livejournal name.
ReplyDeleteI just get "an error occurred" and a bunch of gobbledegook from their XML parser when I try to do that.
ReplyDeleteVicariously comment'd!
ReplyDeleteHUZZAH
ReplyDeleteThanks. :)
If someone's reading, let's say, Franklin Veaux's stuff, and a few sites written by and for Goreans from a perspective that takes that reality for granted, and decides the latter is true BDSM and the former isn't, I'd say that points to a preconception, someone who went in knowing what conclusion she was going to reach.
ReplyDeleteThat said, surely the Veaux/Bay Area approach is more likely to be what you'd show someone to interest them in BDSM. So in that sense it is the "public face"; the error is only in suggesting it's any less "true" than Gor or whatever.
Who the fuck is Franklin Veaux?
ReplyDeleteMaybe people talk a lot about him, but I've been in the Scene eight years and never heard the name. I gather from some very half-assed Googling that he's a figure in poly communities?
(I think maybe this goes to prove my point. How can people intensely involved in the Scene respond to criticisms that are, at their heart, directed at people we may never have even heard of?)
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ReplyDelete最近様々なメディアで紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出少女のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性とすぐに遊びに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか
ReplyDeleteオ○ニーライフのお手伝い、救援部でHな見せたがり女性からエロ写メ、ムービーをゲットしよう！近所の女の子なら実際に合ってHな事ができちゃうかも！？夏で開放的になっている女の子と遊んじゃおう
ReplyDeleteメル友募集のあそび場「ラブフリー」はみんなの出逢いを応援する全国版の逆援助コミュニティーです！女の子と真剣にお付き合いしたい方も、複数の女性と戯れたい方も今すぐ無料登録からどうぞ
ReplyDelete簡単にお小遣い稼ぎをしたい方必見、当サイト逆¥倶楽部では無料登録して女性の性の欲求に応えるだけのアルバイトです。初心者でもすぐに高収入の逆¥交際に興味をもたれた方はTOPページまでどうぞ。
ReplyDeleteサイト作成は初めてでぇす。プロフは友達も作ってたので私も頑張って作成しました。プロフもってる人はメル友になって見せ合いっこしませんか？メアドのせてるので連絡ください。love-friend0925@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete男性が主役の素人ホストでは、女性の体を癒してあげるだけで高額な謝礼がもらえます。欲求不満な人妻や、男性と出逢いが無い女性が当サイトで男性を求めていらっしゃいます。興味のある方はTOPページからどうぞ
ReplyDeleteあなたのSM度をかんたん診断、SM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック！真面目なあの娘も夜はドS女王様、ツンデレなあの子も実はイジめて欲しい願望があるかも！？コンパや飲み会で盛り上がること間違いなしのおもしろツールでみんなと盛り上がろう
ReplyDelete男性なら一人くらいは作ってみたいセフレですが、実は女性もいつでもSEXしたいときにできる友達がほしいと思っているのです。そのような彼女たちの欲求を満たしてあげませんか
ReplyDelete女性向け風俗サイトで出張デリバリーホストをしてみませんか？時給２万円の高額アルバイトです。無料登録をしてあとは女性からの呼び出しを待つだけなので、お試し登録も歓迎です。興味をもたれた方は今すぐどうぞ。
ReplyDeleteSM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック！外見では分からない男女のSM指数をチェックして相性のいい相手を見つけ、SMプレイしてみよう！合コンや飲み会で盛り上がること間違いなしのおもしろツールをみんなとやってみよう
ReplyDelete性欲のピークを迎えたセレブ熟女たちは、お金で男性を買うことが多いようです。当、熟女サークルでは全国各地からお金持ちのセレブたちが集まっています。女性から男性への報酬は、 最低15万円からとなっております。興味のある方は一度当サイト案内をご覧ください
ReplyDeleteプロフ見た感想を携帯アドの方に送ってください。悪口は気が病むので止めておいて欲しいですjewely.jmtjd@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDeleteネットで恋人探しなら、グリーをおすすめします。ここからあなたの理想の恋愛関係がはじまります。純粋な出会いから、割り切ったエッチな出会いまで何でもあります。ミクシーから女の子が大量流入中！ココだけの話、今が狙い目です
ReplyDelete当サイトは、みんなの「玉の輿度」をチェックできる性格診断のサイトです。ホントのあなたをズバリ分析しちゃいます！玉の輿度には、期待以上の意外な結果があるかも
ReplyDeleteセレブラブでは心とカラダに癒しを求めるセレブ女性と会って頂ける男性を募集しています。セレブ女性が集まる当サイトではリッチな彼女たちからの謝礼を保証、安心して男性はお金、女性は体の欲求を満たしていただけます。興味がある方は当サイトトップページからぜひどうぞ
ReplyDelete携帯アドのせておきました。恥ずかしい写真とか乗せてるけど、許してください。ネット友達探してるのでよかったら連絡ください。for-a-sweetheart@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDeleteゲイの数が飛躍的に増えている現代、彼らの出逢いの場は雑誌やハッテン場からネットに移り変わってきています。当サイトは日本最大のゲイ男性の交流の場を目指して作られました。おかげさまで会員数も右肩上がりに伸びています。ゲイの方や興味のある方はぜひ当サイトをご覧ください。
ReplyDelete家出した少女たちは今晩泊る所がなく、家出掲示板で遊び相手を探しているようです。ご飯をおごってあげたり、家に泊めてあげるだけで彼女たちは体でお礼をしてくれる娘が多いようです
ReplyDeleteさびしい女性や、欲求不満な素人女性たちを心も体も癒してあげるお仕事をご存じですか？女性宅やホテルに行って依頼主の女性とHしてあげるだけで高額の謝礼を手に入れる事が出来るのです。興味のある方は当サイトTOPページをご覧ください
ReplyDelete最近いい事ない人集合！話聞いて欲しいって時ないですか？やけに寂しいんですよね。私も聞くので私のも聞いてください。メアド乗せておくのでメールから始めましょうfull-of-hope@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete性欲を持て余し、欲求不満になっている女性を金銭の対価を得て、癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高額アルバイトに興味のある方はぜひどうぞ
ReplyDeleteグリーで広げよう、掲示板の輪！グリーから飛び出た出会いの掲示板が楽しめるのはここだけ、無料登録するだけで友達・趣味トモ・恋人が探せちゃいます
ReplyDeleteパーティーや合コンでも使える右脳左脳チェッカー！あなたの頭脳を分析して直観的な右脳派か、理詰めな左脳派か診断出来ます。診断結果には思いがけない発見があるかも！みんなで診断して盛り上がろう
ReplyDelete野外露出の掟・・・それはいかに通報されないで脱ぐかですが、合法的に露出プレイを楽しめる方法があるのをご存じですか？当サイトで露出パートナーを探したりプレイ出来る場所を提供を探したり出来るのです。興味のある方はどうぞ
ReplyDelete女性会員様増加につき、出張ホストのアルバイトが不足中です。ホテルや女性の自宅に出向き、彼女たちの欲望を満たすお手伝いをしてくれる男性アルバイトをただいま募集しております。興味のある方はTOPページをご覧ください
ReplyDelete美容院いってきた記念に写メを更新しました。結構気に入ってるんですけどどうですか？メール乗せておくのでメッセお待ちしてるなりmiracle.memory@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete最近雑誌やTVで紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のマンガ喫茶等を泊り歩いている家出少女のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性の家にでもすぐに遊びに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか
ReplyDelete童貞を奪ってみたい女性たちは、男性にとって「初体験」という一生に一度だけの、特別なイベントを共に心に刻み込むことを至上の喜びにしているのです。そんな童貞好きな女性たちと最高のSEXをしてみませんか
ReplyDeleteプロフ作ったわいいけど見てくれる人いなくて少し残念な気分に陥ってます。意見でもいいので見た方がいましたら一言コメント送ってくだしゃいメアドのせているのでよろしくでしゅapotheosis@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete乱交パーティー実施サークル、「FREE SEX NET」では人に見られること、人に見せつける事が大好きな男女が集まり、乱交パーティーを楽しむサークルです。参加条件は「乱交が好きな18歳以上の健康な方」です。興味がある方はぜひ当サイトをご覧ください
ReplyDelete全国各地の名うての盗撮のプロたちが自身のコレクションを密かに交換する、完全会員制・盗撮掲示板。門外不出のここでしか見られないお宝ばかりです。話題のhaman動画よりヤバイ動画をゲットしよう
ReplyDeleteあなたの秘められた精神年齢をチェックできる診断サイトです。ここであなたの実際の精神年齢が簡単な質問でわかっちゃいます。普段は子供っぽいあの人も実は大人の思考の持ち主で子供っぽく振舞ってるだけかも知れませんよ
ReplyDelete家出している女の子と遊んでみませんか？彼女たちはお金に困っているので、掲示板で知り合ったいろんな男の家を泊り歩いている子も多いのです。そんな子たちとの出逢いの場を提供しています
ReplyDeleteネットで恋人探しなら、greeをおすすめします。ここからあなたの理想の恋愛関係が始まります。純粋な出逢いから、割り切ったHな出逢いまで何でもあります。ミクシーから女の子が大量流入中！ココだけの話、今が狙い目です
ReplyDelete出会ぃも今は逆¥交際！オンナがオトコを買う時代になりました。当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。経済的に成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ
ReplyDelete世界の中心で貴方を叫ぶような恋がしたいんです。愛に飢えているゆいと恋バナ話ませんか？メアドのっけてるので気になる方は連絡頂戴ねuna-cima@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete女性向け風俗サイトで出張ホストをしてみませんか？時給２万円以上の高額アルバイトです。無料登録をしてあとは女性からの呼び出しを待つだけでOK、お試し登録も歓迎です。興味をもたれた方は今すぐどうぞ。
ReplyDelete流出からハメ撮りまでマニアも満足のエロ動画満載、抜きたくなったらチャットでサックと約束、有無を言わさずサックと中出し、便器女を簡単get出来るサイトです
ReplyDeleteセレブと言われる世の若妻は男に飢えています、特に地位が邪魔して出会いが意外と少ないから、SEXサークルを通じて日頃のストレス発散に毎日男を買い漁っています。ここは彼女達ご用達の口コミサイトです
ReplyDelete一人で家出したんだけど助けてほしいです。今まで強がってました。もう親には頼れない…super-love.smile@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete激レア映像！芸能人のお宝映像を一挙公開中！無料登録するだけでレアなお宝映像やハプニング画像が取り放題、期間限定の動画も見逃せない
ReplyDelete大人気、動物占いであなたの秘められた野性がわかる！草食系と思っていたあの子も実は肉食動物かも知れない！意外性のある占いをみんなで楽しもう
ReplyDelete仕事を辞めてください。一日で今の月収を超えるお誘いがあります。某有名セレブ熟女の強い要望により少しの間、恋人契約という女性からのお申し込みがありました。今までは地位や名誉のために頑張ってこられたようでございますが年齢を重ね、寂しさが強くなってきたようでございます。男性との時間を欲しがっている女性に癒しを与えてくださいませ
ReplyDeletei have a rule for preserving my (small amount of) sanity... and that's to never read feministing comments. every time i slip i regret it.
ReplyDeletethat aside, i know lots of vanilla people who've been hurt thinking that someone was looking for a relationship when all they wanted was casual play. which always sucks, no matter what you're into.
エロアニメナビ・エロ漫画好きにはたまらないお宝満載！激アツなサイトだけを選りすぐりました。女の子にも男の子にも使いやすく無料で出会えるサイトばかりを掲載しています
ReplyDelete１人Hのお手伝い、救援部でHな見せたがり女性からエロ写メ、ムービーをゲットしよう！近所の女の子なら実際に合ってHな事ができちゃうかも！？開放的な女の子と遊んじゃおう
ReplyDeleteストーカーの追い回されて怖いんです。毎日夜になると非通知電話多いし怖い。。。助けてくださいpeach-.-girl@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete復活、スタービーチ！日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタービーチをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDelete「友達の中で処女なのは私だけ…でも恥ずかしくて処女だなんて言えない、誰でもイイからバージンを貰ってほしい！」そんな女性が沢山いる事をご存じですか？出合いが無かった、家が厳格だった等の理由でHを経験したことがない女性がたくさんいるのです。当サイトはそんな女性たちと男性を引き合わせるサイトです
ReplyDeleteメアド開運、あなたの使ってるメアドを診断出来ちゃうサイト！吉と出るか凶と出るかはあなた次第、普段使ってるメアドの金運、恋愛運が測定できちゃいます
ReplyDelete今話題の逆¥交際！あなたはもう体験しましたか？当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ
ReplyDelete只今、シャープ32型液晶テレビ、PS3等、豪華商品が当たるキャンペーンを実施中！まずは欲しい商品を選び、メールアドレスを登録して無料エントリー！その場で当たりが出たら賞品ゲットできます。抽選に外れた方もWチャンスで商品券等が当たります。ぜひチャレンジして下さい
ReplyDelete一夜限りの割り切ったお付き合いで副収入が得られる交際サイトのご案内です。アルバイト感覚での挑戦もできる、安心の無料登録システムを採用しておりますので、興味のある方は当サイトへぜひどうぞ
ReplyDelete彼氏にＤＶされて、ちょっと男性不信です。でも、恋愛して彼氏も作りたいと思ってるので、優しく接してくれる人を探してます。連絡待ってまぁす！ pretty-toy-poodle@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete家出をして不安な少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。一日遊んであげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです
ReplyDelete全国乱交連盟主催、スワップパーティーに参加しませんか？初めての方でも安心してお楽しみいただけるパーティーです。参加費は無料、開催地も全国に１２０ヶ所ありますので気軽に参加してお楽しみ下さい
ReplyDeleteSM・露出・スワッピング・レズ・女装・フェチなど…普通じゃ物足りないあなたが思う存分楽しめる世界！貴方だけのパートナーを探してみませんか？アブノーマルでしか味わえない至福の時をお過ごしください
ReplyDeleteセレブラブでは毎月１０万円を最低ラインとする謝礼を得て、セレブ女性に快楽を与える仕事があります。無料登録した後はメールアプローチを待つだけでもOK、あなたも当サイトで欲求を満たしあう関係を作ってみませんか
ReplyDelete簡単に大金を稼ぐことができる裏バイトがあります。女性が好きな方、健康な方なら日給３万円以上の収入を得ることも可能です。興味のある方はHPをご覧ください
ReplyDelete一人Hを男性に見てもらうことで興奮する女性が多数いることをご存じですか？当サイト、救援部ではそんな女性たちが多数登録されています。男性会員様は彼女たちのオ○ニーを見てあげるだけで謝礼を貰えるシステムとなっております。
ReplyDelete冬に1人ボッチで家でご飯とかオヤスミなんて寂しすぎるょ～～っ！こんなところに書き込んだら削除されちゃいそうだけど少しでもきっかけ作らなくっちゃと思って書いてみましたっ！！気軽に会ったり出来たりする方ってこの掲示板見てませんか～！？良かったらメールくださいね★フリメだったら私気付けないんで携帯のアドレス乗せておくねっ！！ love-sexy@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete失恋は心に深い傷を残します。その傷を癒す特効薬、それは新しい出会い。あなたの心を癒す、素晴らしい出会いを当サイトで見つけて、笑顔を取り戻してください
ReplyDelete高額バイトのご案内です。欲求不満になっている女性を癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高収入を稼ぎたい、女性に興味のある方はぜひどうぞ
ReplyDeleteスタービーチの突然の閉鎖、優良な友達探しサイトが無くなってしまいましたが、新生・スタービーチがここに復活しました！、進化を遂げた新生スタービーチをやってみませんか？理想の交際探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDelete「家出してるんで、泊まるところないですか？」家出救済神待ちサイトには毎日このような女の子からの書き込みがされています。彼女たちはホテルや家に泊まらせてあげたり、遊んであげるだけであなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです
ReplyDelete普通のプレイじゃ絶対味わえない快感、それは野外露出プレイ。最初は嫌がっていた女も次第にハマっていって、その内それが快感に変わってきます。野外露出プレイで興奮度アップ間違い無し
ReplyDelete早い時期に結婚してしまって、少し後悔しているんです。私は、今の夫しか経験が無くって、このままでいいのかなって…。思うようになってきてしまって…冒険はしたいんですけど、やっぱりばれたりしたら怖いので…割り切りで会える方って居ませんでしょうか？連絡お待ちしてますね♪最初に年齢を教えてくれるとうれしいです。pop-music-lo-ve@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete1日5万円～が手に入るサイドビジネスのご案内です。男狂いのセレブ女性はネットで知り合った男を次々に金の力で食い散らかしています。そんな女性を手玉にとって大金を稼いでみませんか
ReplyDelete性欲を持て余し、欲求不満になっている女性を金銭の対価を得て、癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高収入アルバイトに興味のある方はぜひどうぞ
ReplyDelete最近寂しくて困っています。夜一人で寝るのが凄く寂しいです…隣で添い寝してくれる男性いませんか？見た目とか特に気にしません。優しくて一緒にいてくれる方大歓迎☆一緒に布団で温まりましょう♪shart.enamorado.de-me@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete一晩の割り切ったお付き合いで副収入が得られるサイトのご案内です。アルバイト感覚での挑戦もできる、安心の無料登録システムを採用しておりますので、興味のある方は当サイトをぜひご覧ください
ReplyDelete復活、スタービーチ！日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDeleteなかなか彼氏、彼女が出来ない君達の深層心理を徹底解明♪みんなでモテる度チェックをやって結果交換も自由、合コンや休み時間はモテる度チェックで暇つぶし！次にモテ期が訪れる瞬間をズバリ診断しちゃいます
ReplyDelete出会ぃも今は¥倶楽部！オンナがオトコを買う時代になりました。当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。経済的に成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ
ReplyDelete今迄は野外露出がマイナスイメージと囚われがちですが、実際は開放的な気分になり有名人のヌーディストが、オープンになる事を推奨してるぐらいです。このサイトをキッカケに知り合った娘達と野外で楽しみませんか
ReplyDelete最近旦那とマンネリで全然Hしてません。正直もうかなり欲求不満です…誰か相手してくれる方いませんか？空いている時間は多いと思うので都合は合わせやすいと思います。お互い楽しめる関係になりたいな。人妻でも平気な人いたら是非相手してください☆一応18歳以上の人限定でお願いします。上はどこまででも大丈夫なんで excellent.lady@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete当サイトでは無料でオナ動画を見ることができます。また、ライブチャット機能でリアルタイムオ○ニーを見るチャンスも高く、興奮間違いなしです。また、一人Hのお手伝いを希望される女性もあり、お手伝いいただけた方には謝礼をお支払いしております
ReplyDelete日本最大、だれもが知っている出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか？趣味の合う理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう
ReplyDeleteあなたの異性からのモテ度数を診断できる、モテる度チェッカー！日頃モテモテで充実しているあなたもそうでないニートの方も隠されたモテスキルを測定して結果を活用し、今以上にモッテモテになること間違いなし
ReplyDelete女性のオナニーを助ける場が救援部です。ここに所属してる娘のオナニーを見て気に入ったら、実際に会ってオナニーを手伝っても良いし、エッチしても良し、これで報酬Ｇｅｔ出来るんですから美味しいバイトですよ
ReplyDelete一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になりましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度出会いたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に出会えて楽しい思いを約束します
ReplyDelete誰にも言えない秘密があります。実はとってもＨなんです、せっかく女として生まれたからにはアブノーマルな世界に飛び込んでみたいです☆普段では考えられないプレイを思う存分楽しみ、経験したいんです♪快楽に溺れさせてくれませんか？一緒に感じ合いましょう！！都合はつくのですぐに時間を合わせられます。18歳よりも上の方がいいです！！ quietness@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete流出サイトでは、有名人から素人までの他では見れない秘蔵の動画を入手しています。何より素人が相手の場合に限り、アポを採る事も可能です。動画でお手軽に抜いて、抜き足らない場合は、女の子にハメて来て下さい
ReplyDelete日本最大級、だれもが知っている出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、グリーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか？趣味の合う理想のパートナー探し、合コンパーティーに興味がある方はぜひ無料登録してみてください。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう
ReplyDeleteあなたのSM度を簡単診断、SM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック！真面目なあの娘も夜はドS女王様、ツンデレなあの子も実はイジめて欲しい願望があるかも！？コンパや飲み会で盛り上がること間違いなしのおもしろツールでみんなと盛り上がろう
ReplyDelete女性には風俗がない！そんな悩みを持つセレブ女たちは、リッチセックスでお金を使い自分を満たします。金銭面では豊かですが、愛に飢えている彼女たちを癒して高額な報酬を手に入れてみませんか
ReplyDelete女子○生の個人情報公開！？遊び盛りの神待ち女子○生の写メ・アドレス・番号を公開中！好みの女の子を選んで直メ・直電で今すぐ待ち合わせしよう
ReplyDelete高級チェリーの冬は童貞卒業のシーズンです。童貞を食べたい女性達もウズウズしながら貴方との出会いを待っています。そんな女性達に童貞を捧げ、貴方もハッピーライフを送ってみませんか
ReplyDelete初書き込みで申し訳ないんですが、都合のいい男性探しています。不況の中でも会社が高成長してて、忙しい毎日です。お陰でプライベートが充実していなくって、溜まる一方です。財産的にも多少余裕が今のところあるのでお礼もできます。何より、この書き込みが読まれているのかちょっと怪しいですけど…。アドレス置いとくので、消されないうちにメールくれたら嬉しいです。inspiration.you@docomo.ne.jp
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ReplyDeleteだれもが知っている日本で一番有名な出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、greeより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探し、合コンパーティーに興味がある方はぜひ無料登録してみてください
ReplyDelete当サイトは、みんなが玉の輿に乗れるかどうか診断できる性格診断のサイトです。ホントのあなたをズバリ分析しちゃいます！玉の輿度チェッカーの診断結果には、期待以上の意外な結果があるかも
ReplyDelete男性との甘い一時が奥様達には必要になっております。刺激のない私生活はとても辛く、ココロもカラダもストレスが堪る一方、そんな中にデリバリーホストに癒しを求めている奥様、セレブ女性は大変増えてきており、男性の方が不足状態です。女性達の癒しとなる仕事をあなた様も一度体験してみてはいかがでしょうか
ReplyDeleteメル友らんどでは誰でも気軽にメル友が作れちゃう、参加無料でいつでも利用可能なコミュニティサイト♪ご近所の気の合うリア友や、真面目に彼氏彼女探しなど、楽しみ方は無限大！自分にぴったりの相手を見つけちゃおう
ReplyDelete大好評の逆ナンイベントが毎週開催決定！素敵な出会いのきっかけ探し・アイナビにきませんか？積極的な出会いを求める人達なら無料参加OK！あなたもほんの少しの勇気で素敵な彼氏・彼女をGETしちゃおう
ReplyDelete一人暮らし寂しいよ～（泣）誰かお家遊びにきてくれないかなぁ？休みの日とかも全然予定ありません。料理作るの得意だから来てくれたら食べてほしいな♪見た目は悪くないと思うから安心してください！(笑)細かい事は気にしないけど18歳未満の人は微妙かな、気軽に仲良くしてください milky-yukinko@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete冬に1人でネカフェとか寂しすぎやし、でも自分から積極的に声を掛けれる娘ばかりと違い、内気な娘は神待ちと言われるように自分の事を助けてくれるのを待ってるんです。貴方の優しさを待ってる娘は意外な程多いよ
ReplyDeleteあなたのご近所の女の子たちと無料でカンタンにであえる家出掲示板！大学生・専門学生、まさかの女子○生まで！ちょっとしたお小遣い稼ぎに全国の女の子たちが殺到中！ノーピンクからちょっぴりHなお誘いまで…自分に合ったコを選んでメッセしちゃおう
ReplyDelete簡単な設問に答えるだけで貴方にふさわしい名言がわかる、名言チェッカー！あなたの本当の性格を見抜いちゃいます。世界の偉人達が残した名言にはどことなく重みがあるものです
ReplyDelete最高の遊び場、スタービーチ！日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、モバゲーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDelete当逆円倶楽部ではリッチなセレブと割り切りでお付き合いしてくださる男性を募集しています。女性の性欲を満たし、高額報酬をもらって楽しく暮らしてみませんか？興味がある方はアルバイト感覚での１日登録もできる、安心の無料入会を今すぐどうぞ。
ReplyDelete人妻だけどセフレ募集しちゃいます!こんな女嫌かなぁ？新しい刺激欲しいし旦那以外の男性としてみたいな。エッチのテクはそれなりに自信あるよ、フェラとか上手いってよく褒められます。年上は何歳まででもＯＫだけど年下は18歳までが限界かな、楽しみたい人いたら気軽によろしくね♪ enjoy-smile.of.happiness@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete家出中の少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。ご飯を食べさせてあげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです
ReplyDeleteセフレ専門出会い喫茶エンジョイラブは店舗型出会い喫茶 ENJOYグループのネット1号店としてオープンしました♪セフレ探しを目的とした出会いの専門店です。Hに満足していない女性達が多数登録。今すぐ即アポOK表示のHな女の子を新着順で紹介中です
ReplyDelete熟女だって性欲がある、貴方がもし人妻とSEXしてお金を稼ぎたいのなら、一度当サイトをご利用ください。当サイトには全国各地からお金持ちのセレブたちが集まっています。女性から男性への報酬は、 最低15万円からと決めております。興味のある方は一度当サイト案内をご覧ください
ReplyDeletemコミュで理想の恋人を見つけよう！某女性誌に紹介され、女の子の登録者が急増中です。新しい出会いの場としてあまり知られていない今ならメールの返信がすぐに返ってくるかも！？無料登録から始めてみよう
ReplyDeleteさびしがりやの素人女性や天然娘にメールやチャットで会話してあげるだけで儲かる新感覚のアルバイト「素人ホスト」！未経験者の方でも簡単、手軽に出来るお仕事です。詳細は当サイトでご確認ください
ReplyDelete初めての書き込みでちょっぴり緊張してます、男の人と出会うきっかけがなくて！こう言う場をかりてみるのもひとつのきっかけですよね。周りの友達は彼氏とラブラブの毎日、あたしもラブラブな毎日を過ごしたい、21歳の恥ずかしがり屋なんで、年上で引っ張ってくれる人がいいです。メールしてくれたら返事は確実だよ♪ワクワクしながらメール待ってます love.love.happy-@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete復活、スタービーチ！日本最大のであい系がついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDelete家出・神待ちサイト神風は家出少女が集まる人気サイトをクチコミから集めた家出サイト専用のリンク集です。風のように現れる神となってあなたも家出少女を救ってあげて下さい
ReplyDeleteランク王国でもご紹介された右脳左脳チェッカー、天才肌を見分ける楽しい盛り上がりツールとして今、支持をうけております。みんなでやれば盛り上がる事は間違いなし診断結果でも全国ランキングなどにランクインされて面白さ倍増！話のネタに一度はどうぞ
ReplyDeleteゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト！お金と時間に優雅なセレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです
ReplyDelete釦覀芻菣芯맣莑볣莈諣莼鋦躢鷣膆臨ꪰ苣膌藣膡飣膳鿣芹뿣莼鏣莼臣膮ꧦ뒻臯벁诣莥볣芹뿣莼鏣莼臣膧ꫤ붓鏣膮膂蓣芒鿦蒟韣膦诣膕
ReplyDeleteゅめの*。ぉ部屋☆+.プロフ作りました♪彼氏募集中ｗバレンタイン前なのに→アソンでくれるヒトいなくて(泣)寂しいデス↓メアドを乗せておくので遊んでもイイヨ～ってヒト、メルちょうだいネ☆
ReplyDelete新しくなったスタービーチは新しいであいのカタチを提案します★ あなたに出逢いたい人がここにいます。
ReplyDelete神待ちサイト ガールズBBSは家出少女を救う神待ち専用の掲示板です！登録無料で家出少女と出会えるチャンス
ReplyDelete人生の勝者＆敗者を容赦なく測定できてしまう勝ち組負け組チェッカー！資本主義の日本で貴方は果たして勝ち組になれているのか？あるいは…気になった人はぜひチャレンジしてみてください
ReplyDelete高額アルバイトでは大人の恋愛を求めた風俗嬢や社長令嬢といった女性達が多数登録されております。裏風俗とまで呼ばれる逆援助の交際をあなた様も求めてみませんか
ReplyDeleteゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト！お金と時間に優雅な高級セレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです
ReplyDelete変な性癖があるのはどう思いますか？私、獣姦とか好きなんです…いきなりこんな話驚きますよね…引きましたか？Σ(゜□゜(゜□゜*)野外とかにも興味があります！変態チックなのもたまにはいいですよ＼(^-^ )こんな私にメールしてくれるとうれしいです。メールから色んな話しましょ(^_^)年上の人がいいです、私は27歳ですよ！それでは、メール待ってますね sasisuseso309@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDeleteツイッターで始まるであいの掲示板は新感覚のコミュニティ☆男女とも無料の年齢認証登録だけで即参加！！掲示板に参加後はプロフ作成やお友達検索、メッセージの交換等など多彩なコンテンツで貴方のであいをしっかりサポート
ReplyDelete皆様お待たせしました！！伝説の出合い系サイト、スタービーチが遂に復活！あの興奮を再び体験できる！思う存分出合いをお楽しみください
ReplyDeleteゅめのプロフ作りました☆バレンタイン前なのにアソンでくれるヒトいなくて(泣)寂しいデス↓↓遊んでもイイヨ～ってヒト、メルちょうだいネ
ReplyDelete今やモバゲーは押しも押されもせぬ人気SNS！当然出会いを求めてる人も多い！そこで男女が出逢えるコミュニティーが誕生！ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ
ReplyDelete今や女の子のひとりHは常識。しかもお金を払って実際にひとりHを見てもらい、恥ずかしがるのや褒められるのが興奮のツボ！そんな彼女達とオナメールやオナ○ー救援部でHなことしてみませんか
ReplyDelete今まで趣味とか仕事に夢中になってて気付いたら一人ぼっちで彼氏いなーい(＿´Д｀)恋愛からしばらく離れてたから…時々さびしくなっちゃったりするんだよね( p_q)同じくさびしーって人いる？けっこう甘えたりするところがあるから大人の人が好きだよ☆だから、年下はゴメンネ(。-人-。) メアドつけておくから気に入ってくれたらメールしてね！待ってまーす hahahanoha88@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete今、お部屋コンパがアツイ！！毎日あなたのお部屋がコンパ会場に！インターネットで即参加！招待状がなくてもスグに使えるSNSコミュニティ☆
ReplyDelete今度のスタービーチはここがスゴイ！モバイルだけじゃなくPCでも簡単に相手を探せる！新しいスタービーチは出会いの確率がグンとUP☆
ReplyDeleteお金持ち人妻や熟女達は素人ホストに抱いてもらう喜びを忘れられず、性欲を満たしています。お金に困った素人男性達は当サイトで人妻さん達を抱いて高額報酬をいただいてください
ReplyDeleteグリーもそこそこ出逢えますが、であいを求めるならやっぱりスタービーチが一番！登録無料で楽しい時間を過ごしたい方にはもってこいのサイト。これで恋人、セクフレを作るチャンスが大幅アップ
ReplyDeleteこれから家出したい人や現在家出している人達と、家出少女を救いたい人を繋げるSOS掲示板です
ReplyDelete仕事や趣味に夢中になってたらいつの間にか独りきりになってた…彼氏も長いこといなくて恋愛から離れてました( ´_ゝ`)そろそろ恋愛にも夢中になりたいけど男の子とどうせっしたらいいか教えて下さい(-^▽^-) 動物好きだから、年上で動物好きな人仲良くしてね(。・ｗ・。 ) ペット連れて散歩なんていいよね！！まずはのんびりメールからお願いします sweet-rose.perfume@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete今やモバゲーは押しも押されもせぬ人気SNS！当然であいを求めてる人も多い！そこで男女が出逢えるコミュニティーが誕生！ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ
ReplyDeletegreeやモバゲー、mixiよりアツイ！！スタービーチが新しくなって登場！！復活したスタービーチで新しいでぁいを見つけよう
ReplyDeleteセクフレ掲示板、¥倶楽部で大人の恋愛をしてみませんか？割り切ったセクフレと快楽のみを求めた恋愛をしてくださいませ
ReplyDeleteモバゲーやミクシィ、グリーでであえなかった人もNEWスタービーチなら確実にであいをゲット！無料年齢認証登録であの感動が今、再び蘇る
ReplyDelete最も復活してほしかったサイトでダントツのNO.1であるスタービーチがとうとう復活！！以前にもましてご利用者様に満足していただける最高のシステムになっております。思う存分新しくなったスタービーチをお楽しみください
ReplyDelete最低10万円から交際がスタートする援助スポット。不満を持つ熟女達が若い男性を求めて集まっております。熟女サークル逆¥交際であなたもリッチな生活を送ってみませんか
ReplyDelete初めましていずみって言います☆１年半以上恋してません…(/∇≦＼)元彼と付き合ってた時にあんまり会えなくて恋愛してた感じがなかった(;‾ ‾)それから臆病になってたけど長いこと彼がいないからそろそろホンキで恋したいなーなんて思ってますo(^-^o)けっこう天然入ってるから大人で引っ張ってくれる人で年上の人と仲良くしたいです☆気になった人はメールしてね fly.me.so.high-@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDelete満を持してのスタビ復活劇！！ここから刻まれる、新たな一コマ。スタービーチがあなたの歴史を生み出します
ReplyDelete大人気コミュニティーサイトとなったモバゲー！であいを求める人も当然多い！！そこでであい専門のコミュニティーサイトmコミュを発信！ここでカレシ彼女をGETしよう♪
ReplyDeleteなかなか彼氏、彼女が出来ない君達の深層心理を徹底解明♪みんなでモテる度チェッカーをやって結果交換も自由、ゴウコンや休み時間はモテる度チェックで暇つぶし！次にモテ期が訪れる瞬間をズバリ診断、チャンスを逃すな
ReplyDelete一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になってしまいましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度であいたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に会えて楽しい思いを約束します
ReplyDelete今や女の子のオナニーは常識。しかもお金を払って実際にオナニーを見てもらい、恥ずかしがるのや褒められるのが興奮のツボ！そんな彼女達とオナメールやオナニー救援でHなことしてみませんか
ReplyDeleteつい最近独り暮らし始めましたヾ(〃^∇^)ノお家で料理作っても食べてくれる人がいない(´−｀)彼氏いないからあたしと過ごしてくれる人いませんか？手料理ごちそうするよぉ！よかったらメールして下さい(o~ー~)年下の人はゴメンネ…(*_ _)人メール待ってます♪september9-love9@docomo.ne.jp
ReplyDeletePC対応！掲示板コミュニティサイトmコミュでであいを満喫しませんか？素敵なであいをあなたにお届けいたします
ReplyDelete復活、スタービーチ！日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか？理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう
ReplyDelete突如として消えたスタービーチが電撃復帰！長い年月をかけて蘇った進化したスタービーチをお楽しみください
ReplyDeleteであえる確立NO.1を誇るスタービーチが帰ってきた！であいの要素がいっぱいつまった当サイトでであいのきっかけ掴みましょ
ReplyDelete