Tuesday, 19 May 2009

Ren, on examining...

...And how could I leave out this recent gem, from our favorite loudmouthed gonzo creep, Ren:
Right then! So, I am taking a break from my mad rush to get old D there to level 50, do some poking around and reading of shit I’d missed here in bloganistan, and I head on over to one of my favorite kink-friendly haunts…

And start reading all this shit from some self righteous holier than thou facebook asshats who think BDSM is the great evil of the universe and wow, they are just so much smarter and enlightened and self aware than those dregs in black leather!

First off, I am the great fucking evil of the universe, and I will not share the honor with BDSM’ers. I don’t even I.D. as a full on BDSMer, despite having been called a creepy sadist a whole lot. Okay, so maybe I am a creepy sadist…but hey! I’ve examined that! In any event, what continues to make me smirk and want to punch people is this whole idea that the BDSMers or people into that horrible nasty degrading language or rough sex or whatever are, well, somehow more flawed that those who aren’t? I mean check it, this is choice!

(responding to Ernest)

When she requested that I be the acting administrator for this group during her absence from the country, I asked her if she would mind me deleting the trolls from the group. She told me something along the lines of “do what you want, I don’t give a shit.” So I am going to go ahead and delete you and the other trolls from this group. I am also going to delete all your posts. And I’m going to enjoy it very much.

Blah blah blah…

Know your place. –some asshat called Blaize…

Okay, now, really, right off…and as a creepy sadist I know it when I see it: “And I am going to enjoy it very much”, “Know your place”…what the fuck does that sound like to you? Holy shit, sounds like a creepy fucking sadist to me! I mean, come on, that is straight out of bad BDSM porn right there…just switch it up a bit… “I am going to fuck you up the ass, and I’m going to enjoy it very much”… “I am going to erase you, and enjoy it very much”, “I am going to mock you, and enjoy it very much”….”Know your place –(bitch, slut, whore, pathetic whelp, boot-licking plebian!) So yeah, anti BDSM Master Blaize practicing some fine creepy sadist shit right there. I mean, (s)he seems so fucking gleeful with hir position of power, malevolent too. That shit is kinda hot!

Hey Blaize, you wanna go on a date? I’m easy…and I promise to use lube on ya first. You kinda turned me on there, squid.

But hot creepy sadism aside…these fucks are a good example of why I don’t like humans. Buckets full of smug superiority, and yep, the whole idea that since there is BDSM porn, all porn is BDSM, and all BDSM is porn, and all people involved in BDSM (and all people involved in porn) must be pathetic little dupe victims with more trauma in their pasts than an entire ward of criminally insane serial killers…or criminally insane serial killers. And gods, that shit is just soooo old and stinky. Like my socks after 3 hours at the gym stinky. Until someone can provide actual vetted proof that there are more fucked up kinky people than non-kinky people, this shit needs to be shoved right back up the asses it came out of. And gads, need I mention the fucking universals?

Oh yeah, and the image they are using for their group? A nice non 2257 compliant shot from Kink.com, of a woman whose consent they never obtained before using it, and gee, have no idea how she might feel about having her image used for an anti BDSM agenda! Holy fuck, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah, out of a shit ton of meatsacks who care about women, their feelings, and do not want them to be used and exploited! Well, fuck me with a tire iron, that’s sure a great way of showing it, no?

And I do have to ask, nay, even beg (come on, give it to me, I need it!) for an answer from the oh so wise and superior and not fucked up people spouting this crap…why the grim and obsessive interest in what kinky people do in their bedrooms? I mean, if I, oh, happened to seriously rough someone up and cane their ass bloody (not that I would ever do such thing –smirk) what business is it of yours really? I mean, if said person not only consented, but did so enthusiastically, and I dealt with such person in an ethical manner (I am capable of such things on occasion), and we weren’t hurting anyone else and had a grand old time…why the fuck do you care? What business is it of yours, exactly? I mean…last time I checked, none of the kinky people I know of were standing on your doorstep demanding you put on the cuffs or flog them. Even the dudes on Craigslist or whatever are not, oh, making any of you do BDSM, right? The letters SSC do exist for a reason you know…

I mean, it just seems…creepy to me…and since I am the creepiest chick on the block and all, I have to wonder, because you know? I could care less what y’all do in your bedrooms. They are your bedrooms for a reason after all. But hell if these folks don’t seem to…well…get off going through kinky peoples metaphorical panty drawers…

Fucking pervs.

Now come on Blaize, I’ll certainly disrespect you in the morning!
I feel pretty much the same as Ren on this (aside from feeling very done with the Facebookians. I reported on them and now my duty's done, and they can come up with as many lengthy talking points as they want, really, because right now my prevailing sentiment is Really Can't Be Arsed.) I think everybody, no matter how politically pure, or sweet, they want to pretend to be, has a mean streak. We all have moments of enjoying being mean to other people, particularly if we've pre-defined those people as less than human. (Which is what this person is doing with Ernest. He's a pornographer, therefore he's Satan, therefore it's not actual cruelty to mock him, deride him, deny him a voice, and enjoy it very much.)

Now, I don't like that, in part because Satan happens to be my friend and I'm tired as hell of "you do this job, ergo you hate these people" because it's bullshit. But in other part, I don't like it because doing it means being hypocritical and giving yourself a free pass to do so because you're feeling self-righteous. What they're saying is "because this person's occupation squicks -- okay let's be generous, maybe even triggers -- me, it's totally OK for me to be cruel."

That's dangerous, folks, in a way that "Yeah, I've peered into the abyss in me, gone dancing with my own demons, and seen a sadist there, sometimes. I've reveled in it and wallowed in it, and I refuse to call it what it is not because I know when I do and don't give it rein. I'm responsible enough to do my best to control it, and when I go off and behave viciously, as any human will, I understand that the responsibility to fix it is my own" is not.

Because guess what? If it's you, if it's a part of you, you own it. You don't get to say that the devil made you do it, whether because you were tempted by evil iniquitous lust or because your politics of the week makes it a perfectly laudable act to shit on somebody who gets shit on all the damn time anyway.

Even if that means doing something as distasteful to me as, you know, apologizing to Satan.


Renegade Evolution said...

"loudmouthed gonzo creep"

Bows, why thank you!

Anonymous said...

For myself, the whole issue around the image use is not the illegality: I mean, I bet a kinkster or two has downloaded music. Maybe.

No, what bothers me is the obvious bad faith. And we see that repeatedly. For instance, when 9/2 reposts (suprisingly tame) blog entries to show just how fucked up submissives are, she does so in blatant disegard for the sites' multiple warning labels, which ask anyone offended by D/s material to leave.

I could live with that, too. If I see a house on fire with kittens in the window, I'm going to go try to get them out, and fuck the No Trespassing sign. At their most lucid moments, people like Harmony and 9/2 see us in that way.

But there's no way that that ethic can nest with the idea that kink is up in their faces. It is like saying "I had bust your door in to save your burning kittens and the motherfuckers scratched me..."

Alexandra Erin said...

Yeah, I picked up on the creepy sadist vibe when I got my copy of that message, and I called her on it. I don't know what she said in response because I deleted her reply without reading. I figured it was the quickest way to disengage.

Ernest Greene said...

Alexandra Erin,

At least you got a response. Blaize didn't reply to what I sent back. Not surprised.

BTW, if you check out the members list, you'll see the designated deleter is a dude.

I have no comment on that fact, but it is ... interesting.

Trinity said...


Yeah, there's a very real chronic problem with minding their own fucking business, isn't there? I think that's a part of this personality type.

Where for me... well, one of my first experiences as a newbie in kink was someone saying "Welcome to the play party. This is a space for everyone to play however they want. That means that THEY have the right of way, so to speak. If something bothers YOU, that's fine, but it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to walk away from it and not look. YOU own your botherment."

I found it to be a really important life lesson I needed. It taught me a lot about trusting other people's ability to do things or want things or need things I might not be comfortable with, and it taught me that even when I'm not OK with something, it still may or may not be my place to confront them.

Trinity said...

"For myself, the whole issue around the image use is not the illegality: I mean, I bet a kinkster or two has downloaded music. Maybe."

But Orlando, most people who do that quietly put the music on their iPod or whatever. They don't go posting the .mp3 on their welcome mat and going

"As shown by this Rage Against The Machine song, police brutality is a necessary part of the social order when Those People get too far out of line."

If you'd written those songs, and you heard them not only stolen, but presented to other people as illustrations of EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE POINT than you're trying to make, wouldn't you be doubly pissed: first that they stole your shit, and not because they wanted a copy and didn't buy it and are cheapskates but because, second, they ACTIVELY WANTED to piss all over everything you'd created in the first place?

Anonymous said...

Ren: Can I copy that text and email it to her on Feces-book? Please? That was so good to read!

Anonymous said...


I think my concern is that showing that someone is a hypocrite has to take a back seat to showing that their position is incorrect. Otherwise we get into this whole spectrum of possibly-justified hypocrisies. For example, I think Jesus Camp is a brilliant piece of investigative journalism, but it's also way the fuck more dishonest and hypocritical in its methods than Harmony using a piece of bondage porn.

We could debate that methodological-ethics question til the cows come home, and have a lot of fun doing so, but I'm not sure it would accomplish much.

What interests me is that when you went to this party, you had some kind of human interaction that framed the space for you, contextualized what was happening there, and which you still look back on as an important lesson. I expect that if you had had the impulse to go home and write an expose about all the fucked-up shit at the kinky party, you would have felt that doing so was betraying a personal trust someone had placed in you, and which you had tacitly and actively agreed to. Yes?

But obviously Harmony does not have that experience when accessing images, and ND doesn't have it when accessing blogs, despite the (adittedly rather forgetable) warning labels. How can we fix that?

Trinity said...


I have to go to work now, but I really, really think you're doing a whole lot of not listening to the actual porn performers who've spoken up several times about the 2257 issue. Unless and until their concerns -- as the people who actually, you know, made this stuff and are seeing it illegally pop up on their enemies' blogs -- are centered in the discussion, I'm not really interested in why they should really be concerned with something else.

Anonymous said...

I'm listening. I'm sympathetic. I just don't agree that this is a good tactic.

For starters, it isn't entirely clear to me that what Harmony's doing is actually criminal. She is not a content producer as per 2257a, and she has censored the image so that there's a plausible argument it does not depict "actual sexually explicit conduct" anyway. Absent a records-keeping requirement, then, we have someone using a single, small, image of X on a non-commercial site that is clearly about X: it would be a classic fair-use defense. I don't know if it would hold, but it isn't flimsy.

Moreover, I agree with that defense. I don't think content creators--and I speak as someone who works in the arts--can ever be assured of how their images are going to be used. I am sure that Carrie Prejean is not pleased that naked pictures of herself are now appearing on websites that support gay marriage.

But what else are we to do? Harmony views bondage porn as hate speech. We don't agree. But it would certainly be a disaster if we construed IPR law in such a way that actual hate speech was now protected from people that wanted to reproduce it in order to criticize it.

Renegade Evolution said...

more- be my guest.

Anonymous said...

Orlando C.:

You make a great legal case, for sure, and if this was purely about legality that would be fine. Incidentally, as I understand it, anyone reproducing the work is seen as a secondary producer under 2257, so the requirement is still there - but that's an aside and also IANAL (and I'm not a worker in the sex industry in the USA either).

But the real issue is "is it moral?" and "is it ethical?" Where an individual or group is seeking to make a moral or ethical argument against something, and the basis of their argument depends on a point that they betray in the way they make their case (for example, if they claim their argument against porn is based on a woman's autonomy, and yet they then betray the autonomy of women who appear in porn by using their images in this way) that is a clear ethics fail. Their behaviour is immoral by their own standards.

I cannot accept that this should be treated as irrelevant, since it is central to their own arguments.

Anonymous said...

If Harmony pulls the image off the site tomorrow, the site will still be a clear ethics fail, and it will still be achieving her goals.

Alexandra Erin said...

Orlando: True, and true... but that doesn't remove or negate the problems inherent in their use of the image.

Renegade Evolution said...


Lesser Harmony: We care about women and use and exploitation!

SO, we will use and exploit a woman without her consent, payment, or knowing her feelings for our own agenda!

Need I repeat that???

Anonymous said...

Hi Trinity,

I have enjoyed your blog for a while now and this if my first time commenting. Thank you for providing a safe space like this.

I don't know where else to post this so I'll post it here. My username on feministing is ggg_girl, here's the latest BDSM thread I've commented on:


Anonymous said...

by the way Ren, I love your blog too :D

Dw3t-Hthr said...

ggg_girl ---

... I think I'm going to go make cookies rather than destroy the universe in response to some of the comments in that thread ....

Maybe later I'll have calmed down enough to write a response.

Cookies. COokies cookies cookies.

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