tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post3127458190480968725..comments2024-01-26T00:11:44.309-08:00Comments on let them eat pro-sm feminist safe spaces: Everyone we dislike is S, and everyone we speak for is M...vertehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07568745576713009205noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-23882112876944725702013-07-28T23:25:27.751-07:002013-07-28T23:25:27.751-07:00cheap android phone<br /><a href="http://www.ibaikal.com/" rel="nofollow">cheap android phone</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15081648288949685900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-26443721050353256322013-07-28T23:24:41.297-07:002013-07-28T23:24:41.297-07:00cheap android phone<a href="http://www.ibaikal.com/" rel="nofollow">cheap android phone</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15081648288949685900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-69538929552609631792013-07-28T23:24:29.571-07:002013-07-28T23:24:29.571-07:00cheap android phone<br /><a href="http://www.ibaikal.com/" rel="nofollow">cheap android phone</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15081648288949685900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-50117574831404415992012-10-07T00:46:54.988-07:002012-10-07T00:46:54.988-07:00A number of people Diablo III Goldare extremely sc...A number of people <a href="http://www.vipdiablo3.com/" rel="nofollow">Diablo III Gold</a>are extremely scared to be completely wrong how they decide to con themselves regarding their own previous in lieu of realize that they have got lots of people completely wrong, because which may lead them to <a href="http://www.rsgold2buy.com/" rel="nofollow">Buy Runescape Gold</a>question their recent positions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-36036708602705289702012-04-19T10:02:30.898-07:002012-04-19T10:02:30.898-07:00Thank you for this post, really worthwhile info.Thank you for this post, really worthwhile info.аренда квартир в барселоне недорогоhttp://www.vbarcelone.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-76440219612150348052008-09-05T10:30:00.000-07:002008-09-05T10:30:00.000-07:00what a load of bullshit - who gives a Fouc!what a load of bullshit - who gives a Fouc!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-38550202019756422562008-09-03T21:48:00.000-07:002008-09-03T21:48:00.000-07:00Aside from these annoying quote from that Sonia Jo...Aside from these annoying quote from that Sonia Johnson book, I remember being very impressed with the overall book when I read it 20 years ago as a young anti-authoritarian. Johnson came out of a Mormon background, so the book is an interesting take on anti-authoritarian feminist politics.<BR/><BR/>BDSM anarchist guyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-3475310367327799292008-08-31T14:25:00.000-07:002008-08-31T14:25:00.000-07:00Yes, most people will take pain, or nebgative atte...<I>Yes, most people will take pain, or nebgative attention, if they can't get pleasure, or positive attention.</I><BR/><BR/>Thing is, there's a whole element of such theories as transactional analysis that deal with how attention is processed (I'm sort-of planning a longer explanation of how I think that fits together with BDSM over at my place, as a response to this post). So to some extent, people do confuse positive with negative in a way. But the thing about BDSM is that it's not actually negative anyway. And particularly for a masochist!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-30063485180759845502008-08-31T06:57:00.000-07:002008-08-31T06:57:00.000-07:00"Yes, most people will take pain, or nebgative att..."Yes, most people will take pain, or nebgative attention, if they can't get pleasure, or positive attention. That doesn't mean they find it attractive or seductive, or that they are in any way like those of us who actually find pain desirable."<BR/><BR/>Yes, THIS. This right here.<BR/><BR/>I've tried periodically to avoid BDSM on the theory that not-pain is somehow healthier or better, and although I have the slight security of feeling I don't have a secret, something hugely important to me is missing. That's not because I look down on myself or on the people I date. That's because I have a fetish. Hello?Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-73853638427362911792008-08-31T03:58:00.000-07:002008-08-31T03:58:00.000-07:00who among us ... has not confused the slap with th...<I>who among us ... has not confused the slap with the caress?</I><BR/><BR/>I haven't. Not ever. And I wish people with a confused relationship to negative and positive attention would not extrapolate from it as if it was shared by everyone. <BR/>Yes, most people will take pain, or nebgative attention, if they can't get pleasure, or positive attention. That doesn't mean they find it attractive or seductive, or that they are in any way like those of us who actually find pain desirable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-74447597839948489672008-08-30T12:41:00.000-07:002008-08-30T12:41:00.000-07:00And also suggests that the people most against it ...<I>And also suggests that the people most against it are (were?) the people most drawn to it themselves.</I><BR/><BR/>Or that they feel threatened by it for some tangentially related reason, eg. their own sexual or gender insecurity, or even low self-esteem. Either way, their problem, not ours.thenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851538869806389235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-46879210639195748432008-08-29T13:28:00.000-07:002008-08-29T13:28:00.000-07:00"Now there's a weird sentence. SM is not seductive..."Now there's a weird sentence. SM is not seductive to people who aren't either sadists or masochists. Pain's just a fetish, one of many, and if you don't swing that way you're unlikely to be 'seduced' into it."<BR/><BR/>Very true -- as someone who DOES have a pain fetish I can't imagine not having it, but I know plenty of people who find it incomprehensible, including some submissive people.<BR/><BR/>:)<BR/><BR/>But it does very closely resemble, say, religious conservatives' convictions about gayness: it's tempting, it's sinful, if it's not fiercely contained, any good heterosexual may turn.<BR/><BR/>Same logic, false for the same reasons.<BR/><BR/>And also suggests that the people most against it are (were?) the people most drawn to it themselves.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-13625552719291938522008-08-29T12:16:00.000-07:002008-08-29T12:16:00.000-07:00Thanks, maybe I'll see if they have that at the li...Thanks, maybe I'll see if they have that at the library. It's been a while since I read something that really pissed me off. :)callouskittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06409213822012726025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-72261155219646065522008-08-29T09:17:00.000-07:002008-08-29T09:17:00.000-07:00"It is fiercely seductive–as all addictions are–an...<I>"It is fiercely seductive–as all addictions are–and it is lethal."</I><BR/><BR/>Now there's a weird sentence. SM is not seductive to people who aren't either sadists or masochists. Pain's just a fetish, one of many, and if you don't swing that way you're unlikely to be 'seduced' into it. I don't, I tried, I wasn't; my bdsm is elsewhere.<BR/><BR/><I>Also seriously: Man as S and nature as M? Uh, Nature tends to punch humans in the fucking face if we act stupid.</I><BR/><BR/>LOL, much agreed. I think that people who regard 'civilisation' as sadistic and 'nature' as masochistic need to try living in the jungle for a few days...<BR/><BR/>It's odd looking at how they've slapped those 'S and M' labels around, because they're being simultaneously v. critical of masochists but are also casting <I>all women</I> (you know, those 3.35 billion people they speak for) as masochists... That's a weird way of describing yourself & your cause, something akin to 'original sin' - everything and everyone is tainted by teh evill sm! - and that coupled with the idea of 'seduction' just reinforces the idea that radical feminism is a religious cult.thenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851538869806389235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-24101233361273852632008-08-28T14:00:00.000-07:002008-08-28T14:00:00.000-07:00Thaddeus:If you're actually really interested, her...Thaddeus:<BR/><BR/>If you're actually really interested, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Against-Sadomasochism-Radical-Feminist-Analysis/dp/0960362835/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219957162&sr=8-1" REL="nofollow">here you go</A>.<BR/><BR/>May even be where the Lesh piece was published in the first place. I know the phrasing rings a bell.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-7865649467130468522008-08-28T11:18:00.000-07:002008-08-28T11:18:00.000-07:00What casts a lot of doubt on the Lesh's line of th...What casts a lot of doubt on the Lesh's line of thinking for me is that so many people see BDSM is a way to escape their public personas, and find release in giving up the responsibilities and authority that they shoulder daily, or regain the confidence and empowerment that they feel they lack. So, if BDSM can be a way to invert your day-to-day power role, doesn't that make it anti-Patriarchy? :P<BR/><BR/>I'd be really interested in seeing what kind of braindead arguments these people come up to explain the holes in their theories - that is, when they're not just ignoring them, which seems to be the general case.callouskittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06409213822012726025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-63920017576553979622008-08-28T06:39:00.000-07:002008-08-28T06:39:00.000-07:00Also seriously: Man as S and nature as M? Uh, Natu...Also seriously: Man as S and nature as M? Uh, Nature tends to punch humans in the fucking face if we act stupid. Anyone recall that "Katrina" thingy a while ago?<BR/><BR/>Yeah, we're really the dominant ones in THAT relationship.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-89288065034569635442008-08-27T21:42:00.000-07:002008-08-27T21:42:00.000-07:00And the huge thing is, well, I've said here many a...And the huge thing is, well, I've said here many a time before that I think the word "hierarchy" suffers from being defined in the same handwavy way in a lot of feminist analysis. It becomes a catchall for "any power dynamic we don't like," which makes the concept fundamentally useless.<BR/><BR/>Which really bothers me, because I think when we value-lace the idea from the outset that makes it impossible to actually talk about *what's wrong* with bad power dynamics.<BR/><BR/>(Yes, I do recall from the last go-round of this that some of you suggested saving the word "hierarchy" for nonconsensual power dynamics and/or power dynamics that are inflexible*, but I'm still not entirely convinced. I think that hangs on to the value-lacing, and that value-lacing is itself the problem.)<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>*besides which if we ARE good Foucauldians, any power dynamic is in flux anyway, though they can be more or less flexible or rigid, and this can matter profoundly.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-79163576213263172312008-08-27T21:37:00.000-07:002008-08-27T21:37:00.000-07:00To say nothing of Foucault's OWN INVOLVEMENT in SM...To say nothing of Foucault's OWN INVOLVEMENT in SM... which always makes me giggle hysterically whenever I see people making vaguely handwavily Foucauldian arguments against it. He was a leatherman, hello? And a bottom as far as I know, though I could be wrong on that. But of course, male bottoms don't exist because they munge "the analysis", amirite?Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-81986573652053711972008-08-27T21:10:00.000-07:002008-08-27T21:10:00.000-07:00Ugh, this is just a crappy version of deconstructi...Ugh, this is just a crappy version of deconstruction predicated on a fundamentally flawed understanding of post-structuralism. I see this all the time in identity politics and it would make Foucault laugh and cry all at once. Not all binary oppositions represent hierarchies and even when they do, like in the example of S/M, they can remain in flux.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com