tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post4762097776238026241..comments2024-01-26T00:11:44.309-08:00Comments on let them eat pro-sm feminist safe spaces: Theories and Commonalitiesvertehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07568745576713009205noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-56931232657686566502012-09-15T00:47:51.844-07:002012-09-15T00:47:51.844-07:00This is what I Buy Diablo 3 gold will focus on. H...This is what I <a href="http://www.vipdiablo3.com/" rel="nofollow">Buy Diablo 3 gold</a> will focus on. How does one make a case for this kind involving lust, adult males? I might also like to go over why women would certainly seek such neglect. I think these kinds of <br /><a href="http://www.mmolive.de/gold/Guild-Wars-2-US.html" rel="nofollow">Billig Gw2 Gold</a> ladies need assistance, definitely not neglectAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-62268411442054363902008-11-14T03:19:00.000-08:002008-11-14T03:19:00.000-08:00ST: I think it must be the right-wing fundies as o...ST: I think it must be the right-wing fundies as opposed to the radfem fundies - the radfems would say "Goddess-given", after all! ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-41585976331007655752008-11-13T17:52:00.000-08:002008-11-13T17:52:00.000-08:00“When we live our God-given integrity and our huma...<I>“When we live our God-given integrity and our human dignity, there is no space for sex with a guy.” </I><BR/><BR/>Wait, is the anti-gay fundies or the political-lesbian-feminist fundies talking again? I lose track sometimes. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-14082482101660921252008-11-12T15:38:00.000-08:002008-11-12T15:38:00.000-08:00My partner gets immense amount of physical (and ps...My partner gets immense amount of physical (and psychological) pleasure from pain. A good flogging or spanking gets her hot and wet (much more than me licking her clit). I get lots of pleasure from giving pain and seeing someone so turned on by the pain I'm giving.<BR/><BR/>I don't understand how pain play, for example, has to have some twisted underlying shit to it anymore than cunnilingus or anal sex or whatever other sexual acts.<BR/><BR/>Would someone say - "you like oral sex? wow, you should really examine that! patriarchy blah blah" ? It's stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-11245529537275761092008-11-12T11:54:00.000-08:002008-11-12T11:54:00.000-08:00Trinity:I'm talking about the cultural history of ...Trinity:<BR/><BR/>I'm talking about the cultural history of BDSM, not the personal. I've been tracing the cultural history through a lot of books and I'm convinced that culture holds up certain things as taboo. First it was the Catholic clergy versus the bourgeois household, then it was slavery, then it was working women, then it was fascism, etc. That's where the imagery and terminology comes from. <BR/><BR/>To me, BDSM grows out of power, but it is a distorted parody of what power says the world should be. It plays society backwards. <BR/><BR/>I'm not trying to be reductionist, but I am trying to develop a historical/cultural theory of BDSM.Mighty Fast Pighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01346990118148153694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-70365232209195165042008-11-12T08:04:00.000-08:002008-11-12T08:04:00.000-08:00gah, bad dictation program! bad!I actually said "s...gah, bad dictation program! bad!<BR/><BR/>I actually said "some of that power struggle was about what I actually wanted."Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-80366191657973622782008-11-12T08:03:00.000-08:002008-11-12T08:03:00.000-08:00Mighty Fast Pig:What research do you mean? Are you...Mighty Fast Pig:<BR/><BR/>What research do you mean? Are you saying you've actually done some sort of study, or are you saying that most people you know have cited those reasons? I ask because I think it's one explanation among many. I think a lot of people like exploring the forbidden, but that for other people, SM is about other things. <BR/><BR/>In my own case, I do know that my family called me strong-willed and chided me for being too demanding a lot. I guess on your theory this could give rise to me wanting to dominate people because I've been told not to. I think, though, that some of that power for will was about when actually wanted, not entirely about failures to behave in a socially acceptable way. <BR/><BR/>But what it sounds like you're talking about are particular fetishes that have a clear root in social history, so you may only be talking about a reserved subset of interests anyway. <BR/><BR/>I just get very leery when people attempt to reduce a whole spectrum of sexual interests to one particular concept. I get similarly twitchy when people say that all BDSM is ultimately about power, as well.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-89694686742306864752008-11-11T23:40:00.000-08:002008-11-11T23:40:00.000-08:00My research suggests that BDSM fantasy comes from ...My research suggests that BDSM fantasy comes from taboos and cultural conflicts: Catholicism vs secular culture, "the Orient", Atlantic slavery, Fascism, etc. Think of it this way: had Atlantic slavery not happened, rock'n'roll and jazz and hip-hop and all those related musical forms would not have existed. Should we stop listening to that too?<BR/><BR/>I'll confess to certain moments when I've wondered if my kink is symptomatic of my personal dysfunction, wondering if I should throw out my toys and clothes, quit the group I help run, etc. But I don't think purging like that would really help. Thanks for your post. It encouraged me.Mighty Fast Pighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01346990118148153694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-43629074013539234292008-11-10T20:06:00.000-08:002008-11-10T20:06:00.000-08:00oops, didn't mean to leave it out:http://carnivalo...oops, didn't mean to leave it out:<BR/><BR/>http://carnivalofradicalfeminists.wordpress.com/carnival-information/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-9600919648105513292008-11-10T16:01:00.000-08:002008-11-10T16:01:00.000-08:00@ Trinity:I wasn't by any means saying that BDSM i...@ Trinity:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't by any means saying that BDSM is caused by some -ism. What I wanted to get across was the ridiculousness of their obsession with thinking that. <BR/><BR/><I>Some try to solve this by saying "patriarchy" means "white supremacist ableist capitalist heteronormative patriarchy" but I think with ***some*** folks that's just an attempt to cram all other oppressions into their pet name.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, what you said right here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-38334851827077850082008-11-10T11:49:00.001-08:002008-11-10T11:49:00.001-08:00SE: URL, please? Feel free to break it so it doesn...SE: URL, please? Feel free to break it so it doesn't trackback, if you prefer.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-28156178234249584622008-11-10T11:49:00.000-08:002008-11-10T11:49:00.000-08:00You poor victim, Ren!You poor victim, Ren!Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-2881603739212441222008-11-10T11:39:00.000-08:002008-11-10T11:39:00.000-08:00SE: Yep, but I could go out, get a gun, and blow ...SE: Yep, but I could go out, get a gun, and blow someones head off, but since I'm a woman, it would be the Pats fault.<BR/><BR/>how fucked up is that?Renegade Evolutionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905949172886730262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-60847998077714783182008-11-10T11:08:00.000-08:002008-11-10T11:08:00.000-08:00Turns out I misremembered slightly, or else the te...Turns out I misremembered slightly, or else the text has changed since I last saw it:<BR/><BR/>(Fair warning, the author of this definition turns out to be none other than our favourite ex-patriarchy-now-radfem, Heart!)<BR/><BR/>http://carnivalofradicalfeminists.wordpress.com/carnival-information/<BR/><BR/><I># Women’s oppression is rooted in both the structures of our society and in capitalism and white supremacy. Patriarchy includes not only male rule but also heterosexual imperialism and sexism (Charlotte Bunch);<BR/><BR/># In order to abolish patriarchy, we must challenge its root components and causes which we locate in oppression of females by males;<BR/><BR/># We believe that the uprooting of sexism simultaneously inaugurates the uprooting of racism, class hatred, homophobia, lesbophobia, transphobia, ageism, ableism, competition, hierarchy, ecological disaster, and economic exploitation of all kinds;<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>I think this does carry pretty much the meaning I paraphrased, but it also seems to hold a circular definition: "Women's oppression is rooted in [patriarchy]" ... "patriarchy['s] root components ... we locate in the oppression of females and males."<BR/><BR/>Relevant to our specific questions, further down we have:<BR/><BR/><I>we oppose ... sadomasochism, ... , and dominance hierarchies of all kinds; we endorse, support and work to envision and create peaceful, respectful, noncoercive, relationships, structures and institutions which affirm the importance of all human beings, all creatures, and the earth</I><BR/>Huh - my sadomasochistic D/s relationships have been the epitome of peaceful, respectful and noncoercive - and most certainly have been rooted in a belief in the importance of all human beings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-56984236148930016852008-11-10T09:05:00.000-08:002008-11-10T09:05:00.000-08:00Pfft! Why don't they examine their obsession with ...Pfft! Why don't they examine <I>their</I> obsession with other people's sex lives?<BR/><BR/>And who said BDSM is automatically putting the man in the dominant role? That's one hell of an assumption for them to make.Gainahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08495953058626656188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-25185408104272529812008-11-10T07:44:00.000-08:002008-11-10T07:44:00.000-08:00"I read on the homepage of the Radical Feminist Ca..."I read on the homepage of the Radical Feminist Carnival, that "Radical feminism is the theory that male oppression of women is the root of all other forms of oppression" (or words to that effect)."<BR/><BR/>Oooof, I didn't think anyone believed that any more. Can you link me?Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-29685092177377304672008-11-10T07:39:00.000-08:002008-11-10T07:39:00.000-08:00I read on the homepage of the Radical Feminist Car...I read on the homepage of the Radical Feminist Carnival, that "Radical feminism is the theory that male oppression of women is the root of all other forms of oppression" (or words to that effect).<BR/><BR/>Radfems therefore are unable to see anything bad as having any other cause than Patriarchy.<BR/><BR/>Needless to say, to make that theory work they have to do some pretty weird things with history and labour relations!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-24295441544952265152008-11-10T06:34:00.000-08:002008-11-10T06:34:00.000-08:00Also I remain unconvinced that capitalism is avoid...Also I remain unconvinced that capitalism is avoidable...Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-39548672619704716682008-11-10T06:32:00.000-08:002008-11-10T06:32:00.000-08:00"And they are making themselves look really foolis..."And they are making themselves look really foolish to say that patriarchy's overthrow will solve all the other power "problems" in the world."<BR/><BR/>Some try to solve this by saying "patriarchy" means "white supremacist ableist capitalist heteronormative patriarchy" but I think with ***some*** folks that's just an attempt to cram all other oppressions into their pet name.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-74023344920419052152008-11-10T06:31:00.000-08:002008-11-10T06:31:00.000-08:00"Assigning patriarchy as the reason is arbitrary a..."Assigning patriarchy as the reason is arbitrary and only furthers their own agendas in this case. Who's to say classism, or heterosexism, or racism isn't the "root" cause of BDSM?"<BR/><BR/>But why should the root of it be an -ism at all? <BR/><BR/>I've heard the arguments that suggest that without unjust and violent social inequality, SM wouldn't be sexy at all to anyone, but I don't really buy it.<BR/><BR/>I guess the thing is... that can be true for some people and some kinks, sure. For example, I doubt that Nazi play would be a big charge for some people (and as always I gesticulate wildly while reminding everyone that NOT ALL SM PEOPLE ARE INTO THAT, THANKS) if the Nazis had been a peaceful government dedicated to the equal rights of all citizens.<BR/><BR/>But I know so many people for whom the experience is about feeling safe (if a bottom) or caretaking (if a top) that I'm inclined to think at least some SM's basic root is something more like... being a child and having caregivers who have power over you simply because *you're a kid and they should*.<BR/><BR/>And while some people may say that is also tied to -isms, I think that's a stretch.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-760704342202547222.post-59366153505973373662008-11-09T23:28:00.000-08:002008-11-09T23:28:00.000-08:00According to these folks I am definitely "broken b...According to these folks I am definitely "broken beyond repair" and I refuse to buy into that. <BR/><BR/>I love that you state that BDSM is not gender specific. It's crazy that radfems don't see this. Assigning patriarchy as the reason is arbitrary and only furthers their own agendas in this case. Who's to say classism, or heterosexism, or racism isn't the "root" cause of BDSM?<BR/>I've met people for whom kink is racially charged...jack shit to do with gender. But this goes back to them saying "all those issues will disappear for when the feminist revolution comes", which completely trivializes and minimizes these other oppressions; and THAT is something I have a problem with in regards to many radfems.<BR/><BR/>As a kinky person I'd ask these feminists to see that "patriarchy" is not the end all and be all of power institutions in the world. And they are making themselves look really foolish to say that patriarchy's overthrow will solve all the other power "problems" in the world.<BR/><BR/>I know this comment wasn't kink focused, but I felt the need to poke a further hole in their arguments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com