...I don't have much time to talk, but poll time: Is it just me, or are men in the vanilla world infinitely more creepy, sexist, and sketchy than the kinky ones? Ugh. I think I need to wash my eyeballs now.
There's a bad apple in every bunch, etc, but now that you mention it- the most progressive and enlightened man I've ever met is kinky, and all of my bad experiences with males have involved vanilla guys.
Kinky people are much more open-minded about things in general than vanilla ones, it seems.
"and all of my bad experiences with males have involved vanilla guys."
Well, I wouldn't say that's true of me, but I notice a definite correlation between how invested in the whole heteronormative sexual paradigm a person is and how weird/jerky he can get. And I find that kinky het men I've known usually have to at least rethink some of it.
Probably not true of some very M/f structured and traditionalist enclaves, but even most of the arrogant het male doms I know have to grow out of it at least a little bit in as diverse a scene as ours.
Y'know, I just can't read her any more. I think she's got some very spot on things to say, but she says the same things over and over. I got it after three posts. And she still doesn't understand at all that there might, holy shit, be women who like and use some of the tropes she rails against. So I really don't care what she has to say at this point, tbh.
"Well, I wouldn't say that's true of me, but I notice a definite correlation between how invested in the whole heteronormative sexual paradigm a person is and how weird/jerky he can get."
My vanilla sample set is hopefully not representative of the general populous. I can't decide if I found a concentrated pocket of sexist jerks (birds of a feather...) or I just bring them out of the woodwork. :P
I definitely agree with you on that correlation, though. I've found that being female and butch (or otherwise not fit the paradigm) is a fast way to gauge how invested people are.
"But when people grok you, it's that much more awesome, so I suppose it balances out..."
True. Also nice to avoid the 'surprise' jerks- people that seem perfectly nice provided you have an appearance that person deems nonthreatening or acceptable, then something sets them off and the prejudice spews forth. I'd rather have people be nasty to me from the start so I don't end up with a fairweather friend that turns against me later.
Hard to say. I've definitely met more cool, feminist guys through the BDSM community than I have anywhere else - but then, this community is where I do so much of my socializing. And there are definitely a lot of guys who think the openness of our community gives them a license to be creepy.
Hey, readers and contributors - I've been posting to my LJ bits of an essay I've been working on, about the challenges of discussing pornography within feminism, that touches on SM. I'd loved to have feedback. My journal is at harperjean.livejournal.com
I dont make such a division between 'vanilla' and 'kinky' men or people. I have found men's sexual tastes have not really related to their sexual politics.
What a beneficial Diablo 3 Itemsposition, Myca. Nevertheless even if it really is non-falsifiable doesn't imply lots of peopleGW2 Gold don't believe it, sadly.
This begs the question of what prompted the post. Care to share? :)
ReplyDeleteThere's a bad apple in every bunch, etc, but now that you mention it- the most progressive and enlightened man I've ever met is kinky, and all of my bad experiences with males have involved vanilla guys.
ReplyDeleteKinky people are much more open-minded about things in general than vanilla ones, it seems.
Speaking as a BDSM man, yes. Yes they are.
ReplyDeleteSpread the word.
;-)
Doomweasel: not much, just a guy saying sexist things and trying to apologize with flirting. Just... endless uncomfortable bullshit spiral.
ReplyDelete"and all of my bad experiences with males have involved vanilla guys."
ReplyDeleteWell, I wouldn't say that's true of me, but I notice a definite correlation between how invested in the whole heteronormative sexual paradigm a person is and how weird/jerky he can get. And I find that kinky het men I've known usually have to at least rethink some of it.
Probably not true of some very M/f structured and traditionalist enclaves, but even most of the arrogant het male doms I know have to grow out of it at least a little bit in as diverse a scene as ours.
hahaahahaha myca wins
ReplyDeletei dunno but I think bitchyjones might disagree
ReplyDeleteY'know, I just can't read her any more. I think she's got some very spot on things to say, but she says the same things over and over. I got it after three posts. And she still doesn't understand at all that there might, holy shit, be women who like and use some of the tropes she rails against. So I really don't care what she has to say at this point, tbh.
ReplyDelete"Well, I wouldn't say that's true of me, but I notice a definite correlation between how invested in the whole heteronormative sexual paradigm a person is and how weird/jerky he can get."
ReplyDeleteMy vanilla sample set is hopefully not representative of the general populous. I can't decide if I found a concentrated pocket of sexist jerks (birds of a feather...) or I just bring them out of the woodwork. :P
I definitely agree with you on that correlation, though. I've found that being female and butch (or otherwise not fit the paradigm) is a fast way to gauge how invested people are.
"I've found that being female and butch (or otherwise not fit the paradigm) is a fast way to gauge how invested people are."
ReplyDeleteYeah.
But when people grok you, it's that much more awesome, so I suppose it balances out...
"But when people grok you, it's that much more awesome, so I suppose it balances out..."
ReplyDeleteTrue. Also nice to avoid the 'surprise' jerks- people that seem perfectly nice provided you have an appearance that person deems nonthreatening or acceptable, then something sets them off and the prejudice spews forth. I'd rather have people be nasty to me from the start so I don't end up with a fairweather friend that turns against me later.
I haven't noticed any difference there. The BDSM community I've hung out with has the same incidence of creeps as the any of the vanilla communities.
ReplyDeleteHard to say. I've definitely met more cool, feminist guys through the BDSM community than I have anywhere else - but then, this community is where I do so much of my socializing. And there are definitely a lot of guys who think the openness of our community gives them a license to be creepy.
ReplyDeleteHey, readers and contributors - I've been posting to my LJ bits of an essay I've been working on, about the challenges of discussing pornography within feminism, that touches on SM. I'd loved to have feedback. My journal is at harperjean.livejournal.com
I dont make such a division
ReplyDeletebetween 'vanilla' and 'kinky'
men or people. I have found
men's sexual tastes have not
really related to their sexual
politics.
What a beneficial Diablo 3 Itemsposition, Myca. Nevertheless even if it really is non-falsifiable doesn't imply lots of peopleGW2 Gold don't believe it, sadly.
ReplyDelete